Matt:
For those who don’t know who you are, could you introduce yourself?
Marko:
My name is Marko and I’m from Croatia, in the capital Zagreb. I’ve lived here
all my life and I’m really passionate about language learning. The first
foreign language that I started to learn was English and I started to have an
interest in other languages as I was growing up. Later it became even easier to
learn languages. I am actually a medical doctor but I’m not working as a doctor
in a hospital, I’m in the pharmaceutical industry.
Matt:
What languages do you speak and at what rough levels?
Marko:
Well, when it comes to this question, it’s important to have a definition of
what it means to ‘speak’ a language. For example, if it’s to be able to have a
relatively normal conversation without too many problems, in that sense I can
speak 6 languages. English, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian and my
native language Croatian.
Matt:
Very impressive. You have a YouTube channel, what is it about? What do you try
to do with it?
Marko:
My YouTube channel is called Lenguas con Marko. It’s a Spanish-speaking channel
and I try to give some tips and tricks to learn a language. I also try to make
it motivational so the people watching this will not only learn something new
but will also be motivated and inspired by it and hopefully become passionate
for languages. From time to time, I have more casual videos where I talk about
languages in general but most of the time it is tips and tricks to learn a
language.
Matt:
With all your languages you’ve learnt, what order did you learn them in? And
did you learn them all in the same way or were they different?
Marko:
It’s a good question, and they’re actually different. English I started to
learn in kindergarten and I learnt it in the structured way languages are
taught in schools. But later on I started to express myself better by speaking
to people, and we have a lot of tourists here so I could speak it a lot.
Spanish was similar, but the moment where I made the most progress was in
Madrid which was my first time abroad where I could obviously use it a lot.
Romanian was similar, where it was a structured way at the start. But then Portuguese
and Russian I learnt in a completely different way. Portuguese I learned
completely alone in 6-8 months, and it helped that I could already speak
Spanish. I had some different methods including listening to someone say
something and just repeating them and that’s how I managed to be able to speak
better. 8 months after this I was working part-time as a tour guide and was
talking in front of 50 Brazilians at a time on a bus.
Matt:
Wow, that’s a really tough start to learning a language and really forces you
to learn on the spot!
Marko:
Yeah, I actually knew that this was going to happen so I had something pushing
me. It definitely wasn’t perfect, but every time I spoke I became better.
Matt:
I see what you mean about how Spanish helped your Portuguese. They’re such
similar languages that you’ll adapt quite quickly. I’ve found this happening with
my Spanish and Italian as I’m noticing lots of similarities as they’re
obviously both romance languages. Some people tend to tell you to avoid
learning languages that’re too similar because you’ll mix them, and yes this
can happen at times, but I’ve found it has been much more useful than not.
Because I already have a knowledge of Spanish, Italian flows a lot more easily
for me.
Marko:
Yeah.
Matt:
In all of your experiences learning languages, is there any particular thing
that has been the most useful or effective when it comes to learning a
language?
Marko:
For me, it’s not an easy question because it’s a different story for each
language, but I think if you want to achieve results, you have to have a
purpose. If you have this purpose that you want to achieve, or even better if
you absolutely have to achieve it, it really helps. For example with me having
to talk in front of 50 people in another language. Or if you need to enhance
your career by learning Chinese. Or another example I have some Russian friends
that are going to visit this summer, and my Russian is still not perfect so I
need to be able to improve it. That is when your brain starts to work to
motivate you.
Matt:
I agree, you’ll know more than me because you’ve got more experience but we
both know that learning a language doesn’t happen overnight. It’s a very long
process. Once you know how to learn a language, it’s not always going to be a
hard process because you can find ways to enjoy it, but it’s very long. It
takes a lot of patience and discipline, and if you haven’t got that reason or
push behind you, you’re not going to want to do it. Your tourist guide job is a
great example.
Marko:
Yeah, the stress!
Matt:
Are you planning on learning any more languages in the future?
Marko:
Oh yeah! In the past, I made a long list of languages. I don’t necessarily plan
on learning all of them, but it’s just an idea of the order that I want to
learn them. I would really like to keep learning languages for the rest of my
life.
Matt:
I did a similar thing, I didn’t make a huge list but I wanted an idea of the
order as well. Just out of interest, what would be the next language on your
list?
Marko:
Well I’m currently learning Mandarin but the next one I’ll learn I think will
be Hungarian.
Matt:
I’ve heard it’s very difficult.
Marko:
Yeah but that’s what makes it interesting!
Matt:
If I set you a challenge that you have to start learning a new language
tomorrow, it doesn’t matter what the language is, it’s just a new language. In
this hypothetical situation, you can forget about your job and your other
languages for now. What would be your exact process and steps to learn this
language?
Marko:
First I would look at what my options are, because not every language has the
same options. For example, a language that isn’t that popular won’t have as
many speakers or as many materials online. I would try to find some simple ways
to start to learn it, for example an app or a manual, and ways to listen to the
pronunciation. I would start in this way, and I’d then try to find some native
speakers or even tutors to practice with. I would also look for some movies to
practice with. No matter what you do, the most important thing for me is to
just focus on one thing at a time. At the beginning, I think you need to focus
on one thing at a time, rather than trying loads of different methods all at
once.
Matt:
Good point. I think for more experienced language learners like you, you have
more ability to weather the storm. In case you haven’t heard this saying, it
means to be able to overcome some difficult moments. However, if someone is new
to language learning and they try to do too many things all at once, it can
become quite stressful and they might want to give up.
Marko:
Yeah.
Matt:
You already kind of touched on this earlier, but at what point do you think you
can say you can ‘speak’ a language? I liked it earlier when I asked you what
languages you speak and you said that it’s important to first define what we
mean by ‘speak’
Marko:
I think an important factor is what you need the language for. I work in
medical sales, and to be in this job you need to have high levels in the
languages you use. However, if you only speak a language with a friend from
another country, then you don’t necessarily need this same high level. You can
still speak the language, however I think you need to define where and when you
can speak it. When I say I can speak a language, I usually mean that I would be
able to work in those countries and sell someone something using those
languages and I would be able to have a comfortable conversation without having
too many troubles. Recently, I started learning Mandarin, and I still have some
trouble in it. But I have a language exchange partner and we’ve had moments
where we are able to make jokes in Mandarin together and we can smile, and this
shows me that my level is improving. I still don’t consider that I can speak it
very effectively, but sometimes you’ll have moments like this which feels like
a milestone and you get the impression that you’re really going somewhere with
the language.
Matt:
Yeah, it depends on the situation you find yourself in with the language. But
to be honest if anyone asks me what languages I can speak, I rarely just say
the language with no explanation, I kind of explain what I can do with the
language. I also prefer to underestimate myself, I’d rather say that I can’t
speak a language that well and then pleasantly surprise someone, rather than
the opposite.
Marko:
I think that’s very common with language learners. We all want to say we speak
it a little bit worse than we can.
Matt:
Where do you find yourself on the spectrum of grammar vs comprehensible input?
Marko:
I am on the side of comprehensible input as that is what works for me. I’m also
working as a language coach where I help people who are struggling to learn a
language. A lot of people who have a more mathematical brain seem to prefer to
start with grammar. My opinion is that for some people this can work, but this
will be much longer. It won’t work as fast as if you’re going for
comprehensible input.
Matt:
I’ve gone back and forth with it. At first, I only looked at grammar. Then
after I discovered the concept of comprehensible input, I switched to that
entirely. Now I’m of the opinion that grammar shouldn’t be looked at too much
or too little. It should be used as a tool that can help you along your way
while you’re using comprehensible input and speed up the process a bit. I like
to do a small bit at the start just to give me an idea of the language, then
once I start reading and listening a lot, I can look at some grammar rules
every now and then if something is confusing me or taking me a lot of time to
absorb.
Marko:
Yeah I still don’t ignore grammar completely. It can definitely help the
process.
Matt:
In all the languages you’ve learnt, have you ever made any major mistakes?
Marko:
I don’t usually consider things mistakes because they always help you to learn,
but I understand the question. If I could choose something to do slightly
differently to accelerate the process, I’d try to find a language exchange
partner much sooner. It provides you with more accountability, because you can
stay at home and study and listen or do whatever you want without ever really
‘testing’ your language, but if you suddenly have to speak to someone, it tests
your language in a real-life situation, and that will firstly help you to
improve but also motivate you to want to improve.
Matt:
To learn a language, you need to use it. And this requires making mistakes and
getting over the fear of making mistakes, this is unavoidable. But if you can
find that right person to practice with who is respectful and patient with you,
it makes that obstacle much easier to overcome.
Marko:
Exactly.
Matt:
Would you ever advise somebody to start learning two languages at the same
time? A common question I see is ‘is it possible to learn two languages at the
same time?’, but I feel this question always needs to be clarified somewhat. We
never really stop learning a language, even in our own native languages. Every
day we have the opportunity to practice and potentially learn new things, so we’re
always learning. So in theory, even languages you speak very well, you could
still be considered to be ‘learning’, or a better word may be ‘maintaining’. So
to clear up my question slightly, do you think it’s sensible to start two
languages from zero at the same time?
Marko:
Exactly right, to start two languages completely from zero at the same time is
not good in my opinion. I would say that you should have at least one of the
languages at a nearly intermediate level before starting another one. This
requires a lot of time but also motivation. I think the motivation is highest
at the start when you’re starting to learn the basics, and then after a while
when it becomes more challenging, the motivation can sometimes fade. If this
happens for two languages at the same time, it can be quite messy. But if you
have these languages at slightly different levels, for me it makes things
easier.
Matt:
Yeah, I’ve been guilty of getting too excited with language learning and
starting languages too quickly, and we need to manage our expectations.
Marko:
And another thing is that when you learn multiple languages, it’s always
important to decide which languages are most important to you. Making
priorities can make your language learning a bit more organised and your
objectives a bit clearer. Obviously these priorities can change over time
because your motivations can change, but you should always know roughly which
languages are more important to you compared to the others.
Matt:
Very good point. If you set out to try to learn 3 languages and get them all to
a C1 level with no exceptions, this can be an incredibly daunting task and when
you have problems, it can create chaos. But if you know that language A is your
main language that you want to improve the most, then language B you want to
get to maybe an intermediate level, and language C maybe just to say a few
things here and there, then for me it helps you to organise your time and stops
you getting too demotivated. Maybe someone speaks Russian at an incredibly
impressive C1 level, but their German is only A2. They may continually compare
their German to their Russian and get demotivated because they don’t speak it
as well. But if they know that Russian is their main priority, then they’re unlikely
to get too demotivated with their German because they know they aren’t
committing the majority of their time and effort to it. And I think this is a
healthier approach rather than trying to do 100% of everything all at once.
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