I had the honour of talking to Manuel, and I've created the transcript for our interview/discussion. Just like my previous polyglot interview with Higor, you may notice that the grammar within the transcript is not 100% perfect. I wanted to type everything exactly as me and Manuel said it, and sometimes in formal writing, punctuation may not reflect how an actual conversation would flow. So, instead of reading the transcript to learn about correct comma placement, the focus should instead be on the interesting things Manuel advises us to do to learn a language!
M:
For those who don’t know you, could you introduce yourself?
Manuel:
Thank you Matt for inviting me. I am Manuel Sanchez. I am Spanish and I am a Spanish
teacher here in Paris, I live in the suburbs. I also have a small YouTube
channel, Espanol con conversaciones. It is just to do in my free time, and I
was also a French teacher in Scotland in the past 5 years, so I know the French
system and the Scottish system to be a teacher. And of course I like languages,
that is what I do in my free time.
M:
What is your YouTube channel about? What do you try to do with it?
Manuel:
Basically I don’t speak a whole lot myself, I just interview people that I like
and I’m interested in. So we speak about languages and they are usually
polyglots or hyperpolyglots, so some of them speak more than 10 languages or
so, and I try to get tips from them. We speak in Spanish and I try to give
compelling content to people who want to learn Spanish, basically through
conversations. I don’t make things easier for people by writing a transcript
because it takes a lot of time and I don’t have it available unfortunately.
During COVID, I had the time so I did it, but now no. I record the interview
and just upload it so people have access to it. I also make interviews to
people that are learning Spanish, for example I had someone from China and
someone from Poland as well. Some people have a high level and some people have
a more basic level, so there is a lot of variety on the channel. Anyone who is
interested can be interviewed on my channel, it’s not like you have to show
that you’re a C2 level. If you want to participate just let me know and we can
arrange it.
M: Oh
yeah of course! That sounds really fun, I’d love to.
Manuel:
Of course.
M:
What languages do you speak and at what rough levels?
Manuel:
I have never officially tested my languages so I don’t have a diploma or
certificate for any of them. The only foreign language that I speak very well
is French because my wife is French and I’ve lived here in France for the last
20 years or so. My children are French and I work here so it is the only language
that I speak very well. I would say that my Italian is good and my English is
not too bad. And then I’ve got languages that I don’t speak but I practice. So,
I could say that I have 4 languages that I speak (Spanish, French, Italian,
English) and other languages that I practice. I practice Russian, German,
Portuguese and Greek now. The problem with languages is that you lose them. I
used to have conversations in Arabic. That was 10 years ago and I’ve forgotten
everything now. That’s the problem with languages. You love them but it takes a
lot of time to learn them and to keep them.
M: It
can happen unfortunately, I don’t think we ever really stop learning a
language. We’re always acquiring new words and if you don’t use it frequently,
you’re gonna lose it so you need to keep on top of it. This is why consistency
is so important. So you have 4 main languages that you have good control of,
and 4 that you practice and can have a conversation with but you’re still
trying to improve. Do you plan on learning any more?
Manuel:
Of course, that is the problem. It’s like people who want a new tattoo every
year. Once you’ve got one, you just want more and more. I like to start a
language every 2 years, so now I have been doing Greek for about a year and I
will do it for one more year to try to reach a B1 or B2 level. I’m not
interested in trying to reach a C1 or C2 level because I don’t have the time to
practice all these languages on a daily basis, and I don’t need it in my daily
routine. But this year I would like to start Arabic again.
Matt:
The advantage here is you’ve done it before so I guess it’s really just about
refreshing your memory rather than learning lots of new things. Let’s say that
you were going to start to learn an entirely new language, one that you’ve
never encountered before. Take me through your exact process of what you would
do to tackle this language.
Manuel:
Of course it depends on the target language. For example, if I were to learn
Romanian, I would sign up to talk to a teacher (maybe on iTalki) just to chat
and take notes and try to understand the patterns. This is in the same family
(romance languages) as the other languages I speak, so there are so many
similarities that I will not need a lot of time before starting to speak. I
would also use maybe the Michel Thomas method. I’m not sure if you know what it
is, but I can learn to say sentences with vocabulary that I want, and generally
avoid vocabulary that I won’t need, and this is done through listening. This
can get me off to a good start. I also like to start speaking as soon as
possible so my brain and mouth can get used to the language. I will also use
Duolingo so I can do something every single day, even if it is just a bit of
it. After this, I can try to read and listen more, and then when I reach B1 or
B2 I just go to another language.
Matt:
And where do you find yourself on the spectrum of nothing but grammar-study vs
entirely comprehensible input? Do you lean towards one end more or are you a
mix of both?
Manuel:
Good question Matt. As a teacher, I have a method to follow. I’m not allowed to
do what I want with my students in France, and it was the same in Scotland. I
have my boss and I follow the rules about doing the lessons. This is a lot of
grammar and vocabulary, however this method is not very interesting so the
students get bored and they don’t learn. When you learn on your own, you can do
whatever you want, and I personally never do grammar when I learn on my own.
When I teach, I have to do grammar, but when I learn, I never do it. I try to
just listen and read to comprehensible input and try to absorb the language.
It’s important to find material that interests you, this is very important,
otherwise you will get bored and won’t absorb as much. And when I can I
practice speaking, and with this method you can reach a B1 or B2 level.
Matt:
I agree again, it’s the same in England too. I was taught French in school and
I learnt about 5 sentences in 5 years of study. I’m not saying this to
disrespect my teacher. I thought he was great and made the lessons interesting.
It’s just not an effective method. A further problem is that being taught a
language in school is the first contact with learning a foreign language for
most people, so if they leave school and want to learn one, this is their first
idea on what to do because they think it is what you have to do. It was the
same for me when I started to learn Spanish. Just to return to a point you made
a few moments ago. Most polyglots agree that comprehensible input is the best
method, and I agree. However there seems to be a divide between those that want
to speak from day one and those that want to wait. These are all polyglots who
have had a lot of success in learning many languages, so it is obvious that
there are advantages to both methods. You said you like to speak as soon as
possible. Why do you like this?
Manuel:
I think you should speak as soon as possible, and I like to speak from day one.
I did it for Arabic, but you need to have a good tutor. You need to have
someone who guides you very well. If your target language is easier for you,
for example if you are Spanish and you want to learn Italian, speaking from day
one will be easier and you can probably do it straight away. If your target
language is very different, you obviously need to know some vocabulary in order
to speak. So I spend some time on my own, maybe 3-6 months, to build up my
vocabulary. Then, I’ll get in touch with a tutor and take advantage of the time
I have with them to speak. In order to speak well, you need to speak a lot. To
be honest, I think both approaches are good. It is important to remember that
speaking is a skill that is different to the other skills
(reading/listening/writing), so just because you are good at reading and
listening, doesn’t mean you will be good at speaking. This is why you need to
practice. I don’t do writing because I don’t need it, so it is a matter of what
you enjoy doing. I learn languages to speak to people, so I try to speak as
soon as possible.
Matt:
Yeah, I don’t think there is a right answer. There are successful examples of
people who speak from day one and those who wait months to speak, so it’s clear
both ways have advantages. And like you say, it depends on personal preference
and reasons for learning a language. In all the languages you’ve ever learnt,
have you ever made any mistakes? I’m referring to methods here that you’ve
maybe tried and thought it was a waste of time
Manuel:
The mistake that we all do is trying to learn a lot of languages at the same
time. I’ve done this and to be honest I still do it. You can’t just have one
slice of pizza, you want more and more and then a beer as well. When you love
languages, this is very easy to do. It is common to try to learn a few at the
same time and then not maintaining those languages. For example, I spent 3
years learning German every day, for at least an hour a day. I did this at
school before going to work. But I don’t have the possibility to speak with
German people, so unfortunately my German tends to disappear. Once you put all
that effort in, you need to maintain it, and we only have 24 hours in a day so
it isn’t always easy.
Matt:
I’ve felt the same before, it’s very tempting to want to start a lot in one go
and it’s fun, but it’s not sustainable. We have jobs, family, friends, other
priorities and hobbies, so we need to manage our expectations. If someone was
trying to learn two at the same time, what would your advice be?
Manuel:
Of course you can learn two languages at the same time, however you have to be
prepared for a challenge. Here in France, the students have to choose two
languages, so they all study English and then they choose between German or
Spanish. If it was an adult, I would ask them what their reasons are for
learning these two languages. Will you be committed to both of them? What are
the target languages? How much time do you have available? You have to have the
motivation to learn these languages if you want to be able to do this because
it will require a lot of effort.
Matt:
I have that same ‘sickness’ for wanting to learn lots of languages in one go,
and a while ago I started learning Dutch on Duolingo. This was a completely
random choice for no real reason, I was just attracted by the thought of
another language. Then after a few days I stopped and said to myself “Matt, why
are you actually doing this?” and I didn’t have any good answers. It is no
disrespect to Dutch, I think it is a cool language, but I didn’t have any
reason to do it. So all I was doing was using up the limited time I had that I
could’ve been using to practice my other languages.
Manuel:
You need motivation for every language you learn, if you do it just for having
that “wow” effect on people, it will not get you very far. Learning a language
is a marathon, and some languages are ultra marathons, for example for
languages that are very different to the languages you know, this requires a
lot more work.
Manuel's video where he interviewed me in Spanish - Hablando sobre el "input comprensible" de Stephen Krashen con Matt, profesor de inglés. - YouTube
You'll see that my Spanish is not great, but it's crucial to overcome the fear of using the language and try your best! 💪
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